What players actualy mean when they say '' Slower engaging combat ''

I dont think they actualy want slower game, game speed is in good spot, i believe they want more dificulty. I dont want to kill geonor in his second phase, that's just stupid design. When i am the one who just started journey and geonor is god who i need to kill by using mutlitple skills and tactics, so later in endgame i can become a god. 0.4 is in the good spot, we just want those campain and endgame dificulty from 0.1 witch will fit in good with todays standards of the game. Jamanra fight was so epic and hard in 0.1 most fun i ever had in a ARPG game ever. I believe it took me 8-13 mins to kill him. But sadly i dont think we will get this becouse of those guys who still believe there will be campain skips and shit like that. Everyone who even mention campain skip should get banned in my eyes. Some streamers say u need 2-3 combos to kill white mobs, maybe in campain yes, but in endgame is not like that. Crafting needs nerf by 30% , i want that feeling from 0.1 where i almost sold every rare crosbow found on the ground. Divine should not be only thing you are waiting to drop...
if this is all imposible now give us ruthles please. we can all get what we want. Even that split in player base should help the economy.

I'd say it is really complicated topic.

Game has phases:
- Campaign (well done, maybe too easy);
- Early Endgame
- Late Endgame

Ramping between T1 map and T16+ with full Atlas is quite important.
I mean, determination of what is growing at what rate - density, defenses, damage.

Then you have the Late Endgame, in which in my opinion player feels way too strong and any content becomes trivial grinding fiesta.
We need Late Endgame content for Godlike level builds imo.

Player power scaling is an aspect of how fast the game feels too.

We are not armed with necessary tools nor stats to even remotely start the discussion of what we want and how we want it delivered.

I'd say game is overall great, but lacking in the Late Endgame - as that's where I play the most of my playtime. It could be something else for you. And that's how discussion within this subject is always like.
And that is ONLY the combat feeling side of it.

that fight took me 8-13 mins only becouse it was new game. we did not have any knowlege how to be strong, back then skill gems was not in the same spot they are now. give me now that dificulty boss i kill him in 6-8 mins and thats how long it should take. But to kill him in his phase 1 or 2 is really bad game design.

that should only happend in early endgame or late.

What players actualy mean when they say '' Slower engaging combat ''

Meaning... Clearings per maps should last at least 15 minutes and Bosses at least 5 min. Also in killing monsters all ailments and types of skills should matter. Not just pressing one button ( sometimes with auras half button) and booommm! Whole screen explodes.

I understand early and late endgame will take alont time for them to balance it, dont want to see this campain destroyed by those zoomie zoomie blasters from poe1 campain. ??

at least save campain for now.

I take it to mean that when you are in combat with monsters, your brain is on, and you are deliberately engaged. This topic really gets blown out and people focus on the wrong aspects.

The issue is not around how "fast" or how "slow" combat is, because that is something that can be dynamic and change on a monster-to-boss and pack-to-pack and skill-to-skill basis. It's not about speed.

The "visual clarity" factor is another derivative discussion about what limits a players ability to consciously engage with content, but it doesn't really address what matters - the degree of player engagement that should exist in the first place.

It's about conscious player engagement during combat, and ensuring that the usage of skills and the movement of your character is strategic and deliberate in the context of the content being engaged with, which is a dynamic scenario that can look like a lot of things.

That can be fast, or slow. It can sometimes be visually spectactular, or sometimes clear as a bell. It can be methodical and systematic, or blunt and spammy. All of that depends on what monsters (or bosses) are on your screen, their mods, the amount of them, what supports you have on your skills, and what is going to be appropriate to use in that moment. We get access to 9 skills. We can build for more than one scenario.

What we DO NOT want is brain-off combat where a build or playstyle circumvents the requirement for strategic or deliberate engagement almost all of the time.

I'm talking about the PoE1 meta-build style where you are spamming a movement skill and repetitively tapping one attack/spell (maybe sometimes to trigger another spell) and deleting everything all at once, in a sustained fashion, as you progress through the zone (which is usually quick, because of the movement speed and rate of damage), all the way until completion, with no need to consider anything about any monster or boss mechanic at any time. The only thing being looked for are "tinks" or highlights on the loot filter and everything else is background noise.

THAT is what the endgame in PoE1 looks like.

THAT is what we don't want in PoE2.

It doesn't mean the game has to be a molasses-laden Dark Souls simulator at all times, it just means we want engagement to be strategic and deliberate.

We don't want it to be a mindless Cookie-Clicker loot-casino.

"

karsey#2995 wrote:

It's about conscious player engagement during combat, and ensuring that the usage of skills and the movement of your character is strategic and deliberate in the context of the content being engaged with, which is a dynamic scenario that can look like a lot of things.

That can be fast, or slow. It can sometimes be visually spectactular, or sometimes clear as a bell. It can be methodical and systematic, or blunt and spammy. All of that depends on what monsters (or bosses) are on your screen, their mods, the amount of them, what supports you have on your skills, and what is going to be appropriate to use in that moment. We get access to 9 skills. We can build for more than one scenario.

What we DO NOT want is brain-off combat where a build or playstyle circumvents the requirement for strategic or deliberate engagement almost all of the time.

Would quote it in entirety but I'll save space: 100% agree with it all and this is the definition that, IMO, we need to keep in mind when discussing combat.

It's not necessarily about fast or slow or minutes fighting (i.e. - a boss fight should take "X" mins bare minimum), it's about engaging combat options that are active (meaning the user consciously decides to parry, stampede, dodge, or throw a war cry), fun, and rewarding.

Additionally, I believe difficulty levels in-between standard and HC need to exist as well. I say this as a POE1 SSF HC player who actively tried to get to Act II without spending any passive points. Not to impress but to impress upon: I'm all for a fun and challenging experience although where is the line between active, challenging engagement (i.e. - 0.1 which I was not a part of...just started POE2 a few weeks ago) and bringing in our POE1 brethren. Throwing that out because I see a lot of conversation regarding difficulty and I don't think "Standard" and "HC" offerings fully address what the 0.1 community are asking for: A world where death WILL happen and every battle is a potential hill to climb not a plain to mindlessly wander through.

However, there is a lot of nuance in the "hill to climb" (some prefer a mountain, others a hill, others a mound)...

I mean visually clear skills, no mess on the screen, clarity. Combos with dodge in them, combat fluidity, skills that connect to each other. And i tried to say in the other thread with AI, a zoom option for couch players vs desk players with the new hardware and console compatibility.

I played the hole campaign with Mercenary, fire crossbow heat and with default zoom i did not distinguished when my heat was at 15 to 30, so the hole campaign i was in middle zoom, it was awesome. Now, after a month brake, the zoom is busted somehow, i don't want to play anymore.

PoE1 was all about hack and slash, i want PoE2 to be this action packed with beautiful graphics and "meaningful combat" ...

i personally want the game to be way less crack induced. i want the t16 full mod map are to be done with party.
theres grenades, with oil and trigger ground effect, i wanted a fight where we can do preparations, set up ballistas, oil ground and lure the mob packs into a killzone.

or we can prepare ember fussilade, throw a frostbolt that lures enemies to us as they are slower then we bring firestorm to them.

i want observation too, packs can be different types and depending on it we can adjust our approach.

or you can just boulder dash through them with titan as you leap slam them heavy stunning them, while spellcasters finished their COMET cast that has LONG cast time but TREMENDOUS destructive power and AREA of EFFECT.


the mobs dont rush at us like maniacs, they dont stun lock us, they dont die with 1 skill, they give WAY better rewards.

the bosses dont die in 2 seconds, the bosses cant one shot us, we cant oneshot the boss. the boss gets to show their mechanics and cool moves, and we get to fight them, it will be hard but it should be worthy of our time bcs bosses should yield ASTRONOMICALLY better rewards than currently. like currently bosses can drop tier 1 items that is just dogshit. we kill literally demon lords and what not and they drop trash that UNA sells better.

for now what it has is just identity issue. End-game is not toned for the core idea of poe 2 gameplay. So game just sharing poe 1 players. It's serving casuals and most emotional part of community. Not people who likes to theorycraft and who liked poe 2 core gameplay.

Bosses in campain now in 0.4 was to easy on blue random items on most gear. Playing werewolf was like palying diablo 3 and not even poe.